Post Traumatic Stress Disorder

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Bill Glasheen
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Post Traumatic Stress Disorder

Post by Bill Glasheen »

Some time in the eighties, I remember teaching a new group of students in a UVa karate class. There must have been about 50 young faces in the room that September evening. Among them was an attractive blond freshman who was listening attentively as I was going about my business. At one point I happened to have an uke giving me a bear hug. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Well now that I'm here, I might as well show you a little trick I learned. One way to get out of a hold like this is to grab their pinky like so....and pull it back in an extreme angle like this... One of two things will happen. Either he will let go, or I will break his finger and then he will let go.
The group gave their predicted response of good-natured laughter - the kind that comes when you're glad it isn't you on the business end of a nasty technique.

Approximately thirty hours later, a naive, blond freshman was walking home alone on Rugby Road. It had been an active night on "fraternity row." Somehow, young students seem always to walk around the grounds of the University (and across streets) as if they are invulnerable and the world will take care of them. As she took a shortcut across the front lawn of The President's home, a dark figure came from nowhere and grabbed her from behind. Before she knew what was happening, she was being dragged towards some large bushes that were easily decades old and plenty of cover for something very bad to happen with little chance of discovery. Suddenly a thought crossed her panicked brain. She reached, grabbed the pinky, and pulled it in an unnatural angle. Snaaappp! The two of them awkwardly tumbled to the ground. Seconds later, the attacker was gone.

About a month later, an article appeared in The Cavalier Daily describing the incident. The woman who was attacked agreed to an interview, as long as her name was not mentioned. One would think this was an opportunity to be proud and grateful. Instead, it was a story describing a very troubled young woman whose entire outlook on life had been shattered. Already she had dropped several of her classes. She had backed out of several dates at the last minute. She was angry... She was angry that the police were busy towing cars from Scott Stadium parking lot for the football game the next day, instead of showing a presence on Rugby Road. She was angry that her attacker had not been found. She was angry at...men. Nowhere in the interview did she express recognition for how lucky she was. Somehow she just couldn't see things that way.

Martial artists, military personnel, and police officer instructors spend a lot of time equipping and preparing their charges for duty. There is the issue of the attack. There is the issue of the panic of the moment. There is the force continuum to consider. There are laws to be considered right when we are about to meet our maker.

And then there is the aftermath.

Recently I had a chance to read a thread on Van's forum. It had evolved quite a bit before I spent about a day reading and absorbing about 50 posts. It was easy with 20/20 hindsight to make a constructive contribution. I made note of some interesting phenomena. I was somewhat aware of the background of many of the personalities involved. We'll all survive today, I thought.

Later that evening I watched a Dateline program. I'll share the print version of it here. Make sure you read both parts. The first part deals with an incident...

www.msnbc.com/news/506619.asp

and the second part the aftermath...

www.msnbc.com/news/506710.asp

In our efforts to prepare students for the worst, we speak of the force continuum. Perhaps it is our duty as instructors of martial arts to also recognize an important time element - the psychological continuum. It starts when our brain experiences that first Uh oh... and then it goes on to the Oh $hit.. phase. If we are lucky, we are standing after the physical confrontation. But it doesn't end there. For some, the assault goes on for years, and it can evolve to the very end that our attacker intended in the first place. Talk about delayed death touch...

Society seems to "forgive" women for psychological illness, albeit begrudgingly. It's not as forgiving of men who don't "snap out of it." Somehow dwelling on the past with melancholy eyes seems so unmanly to many. And women wonder why guys aren't sensitive? Ultimately though the toughest can fall just as easily as the yin among us - all the harder when it is more difficult to accept.

Have some of us dropped the proverbial ball in the past? Are there opportunities around us today? Is this not made worse by the holidays? Is there something to this evolution from karate jutsu to karate do? There is much to ponder. And...there are those among us who have much to contribute.

- Bill


[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited December 27, 2000).]
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Van Canna
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Post Traumatic Stress Disorder

Post by Van Canna »

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Have you ever heard of the idea of "The Mark of Cain"? Basically, it says that a person, who kills, for whatever reason, carries a mark to his grave and is treated and acts differently from the rest of the humans.

For the Mark of Cain idea, I think that even if everyone in the area still says "yes you did the right thing" and no one held you in an ill light, the person who would still see you in that light would be yourself.

I think this is why we see so many police suicides, and cops going to the funerals or graves of people they've shot. No matter what, we never want to take someone's life, and BG or not, you're still going to feel something about it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Soldiers go through the same torment. I was watching the movie "The thin red line" the other night and one of the soldiers caught in the killing frenzy of Guadalcanal said " It is worse than rape", referring to his having killed enemy soldiers.

LFI outlines more of the same:

1] Logorrhea

2] Cognitive dissonance

3] Nightmares

4] sleep disturbance

5]Depression

6] Social withdrawal

7] Flashbacks

8] Aggression/avoidance

9] Appetite disturbance

10]Family stress/divorce/loss of employment

11] Killing someone, an act bigger than life,society views the survivor, no longer as simply the next door neighbor, but rather as the person who killed another human being. It will remain the one thing above all others that people will remember about this person. The Mark of CAIN.

12] Impotence

***

How about that? Doesn't it make you want to sell your guns, rip up your SOKE diploma and curl up into the fetal position waiting for a quick end? Image

But of course what are really the chances of anything like that happening to you?

Hell, you guys are all paranoid! Image


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Post Traumatic Stress Disorder

Post by gmattson »

Excellent points Bill. A very complex subject. If we successfully defend ourselves, there is a heavy price to pay in the way we and society judge our actions.

I raised this subject awhile back in regard to the stress of being constantly prepared for battle and the aftereffects of an actual fight. This is obviously a much more serious issue with police than with martial artist, but still a subject worth discussing for those of us who spend a lifetime preparing for that "BG" around the next corner.



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paul giella
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Post Traumatic Stress Disorder

Post by paul giella »

Martial arts training is one of the best ways for persons with a particular kind of post-traumatic reaction to get themselves back on their feet. The developers of "Model Mugging" and similar programs know this and market their method to women and men who have been victims of aggression. I wrote in my Renshi thesis in 1999 that our karate parctice, and sanchin in particular, are uniquely suited to longterm stress management. One of the most psychologically damaging aspects of mugging or rape (by no means the only aspect)is the sense of passivity or paralysis that many victims describe. They felt extremely small, weak and helpless at the time of the event, and those feelings shattered the comforting fantasy of safety that they had lived with before the event. By taking up a martial art, they turn passive into active. While the skills themselves are never foolproof, we know they have potential value (at least for some practitioners in some situations). Even if they are never actually used in self-defense, there is the psychological value of believing that you are doing something active to make yourself less vulnerable. That is part of the healing. I may have shared this story once before, but it is worth repeating: I had heard that during one of the middle east wars a couple of decades ago the Isreali army lost a significant number of tanks in battle in a relatively short period of time. Besides the loss of many soldiers, the commanders noticed that the survivors even fared badly... many of them developed PTSD symptoms based on their sense of exposure and helplessness on the battlefield. So they called in their psych people, who developed a set of quick defensive maneuvers for the tank commanders, who were told that these maneuvers were designed to keep them safe. In the ensuing battles the same percentage of tank troops were killed, but those who survived had significantly less PTSD. Why? Because they had believed that they were not helpless, that the maneuvers they had learned had protected them. Maybe this story is true, maybe apocryphal...the point is that practicing an active means of self-protection helps alot of us deal with the day-to-day feelings of vulnerability that are a part of modern life.
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Van Canna
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Post by Van Canna »

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
One of the most psychologically damaging aspects of mugging or rape (by no means the only aspect)is the sense of passivity or paralysis that many victims describe. They felt extremely small, weak and helpless at the time of the event, and those feelings shattered the comforting fantasy of safety that they had lived with before the event.
[Paul Giella]

The same feelings are experienced by victims of assault, such as a street fight, or a confrontation, even as they thought they possessed some defensive skills from their practice of martial arts.

The sense of passivity or paralysis becomes even more insidious to the psyche, if you were to take a serious beating in spite of your high Dan rank and perceived fighting skills as per your martial arts training.

We have seen major examples of this over the years, Paul.

We even had someone entering the world tournament in Chicago back in the sixties, losing his first match, spraining his foot, and then blaming GEM sensei for it, along with “this useless Uechi style”!



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Post Traumatic Stress Disorder

Post by david »

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
In our efforts to prepare students for the worst, we speak of the force continuum. Perhaps it is our duty as instructors of martial arts to also recognize an important time element - the psychological continuum. It starts when our brain experiences that first Uh oh... and then it goes on to the Oh $hit.. phase. If we are lucky, we are standing after the physical confrontation. But it doesn't end there. For some, the assault goes on for years, and it can evolve to the very end that our attacker intended in the first place. Talk about delayed death touch...
I think PTSD is certainly something that needs to be openly acknowledged if we are to dwell into the different aspects of self-defense. I also think it's important for an instructor to not feel that s/he has to help a student resolve or alleviate the PTSD. Rather, be prepared to hear a student talk about the precipitating experience with non judgemental attitude about the what the student did or did not do. I think there is a tendency for many listeners to project, subtlely or otherwise, their own values and preconceived notions about what they would have done in a similar situation. They are no longer acting as a sounding board for the person experiencing PTSD. Rather they become another person to whom the protagonist must justify/rationalize/defend his/her actions to. That's definitely not needed as the person is already facing a critical judge which is him/herself.

If one is going to listen, then be like the "mirror." Provide the reflect and let the person see and examine the reflection. Don't distort with your active interjections of your own values and judgements. The only affirmation the protagonist needs is to know s/he has made it to the here and now. That person needs to figure out what s/he did to make it there and how this conformed and did not conform to previously held values and preconceived notions about how to act in a self-defense situation. The protagonist needs to work this out for him/herself.

It seems obvious but, as a listener, it is important to note that each individual comes into a self-defense situation with his/her own values and experiences. These affect how that person acted or did not act, how s/he begins to judge the "rightness" or wrongness" of what occurred. The listener, as an individual, has also his/her values and experiences and a built-in judge that comes with these. Nevertheless, if you're trying to be supportive, keep that judge at bay because the other doesn't need to hear what you think you would've done in his/her shoes. You were not in those shoes and should count your blessings.

Finally, the other way for the listener to be supportive is really to encourage other person to seek help, be it through the clergy, a mental health professional, and/or somebody else. That's is as much as one can do to be supportive unless one is professionally trained to do more and has the skills and committment to work with the protoganist for the duration.

For the martial artist concerned with self-defense and its implications, think long and hard about what you feel you can accept or not accept in your effort to survive or protect a loved one. Each incident that you heard or read about, or was involved in, is an opportunity to think and examine again and again. This can help when and if you need to act in self-defense. Recognize also the reality of an emotional/psychological aftermath. The intensity and duration may vary but count on it a reaction. And, yes, it's okay to ask for and seek help with this.

david
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Post Traumatic Stress Disorder

Post by Bill Glasheen »

First of all, I want to thank Panther, Ian, and Paul for a very informative thread on Van's form. There's quite a treasure of information buried in that dialogue. I hope you folks will forgive me for using elements of your discussion to raise some very interesting points.

I found the Dateline story of the New York cop suicide victim very interesting from the standpoint of what we shouldn't do. Of course all of these points are conjecture; the individual involved may have killed himself anyway. But common sense points to a number of key events that may have strongly contributed to the policeman's self-destruction.

* First of all, is there any way anyone can put a gag on Al Sharpton? How many times has he run his mouth in the name of a pointless or subsequently invalidated cause? Who elected him representative of any group anyhow? I would think by now his behavior would be good material for late-night comedians...

* Why in god's name would a police commissioner (or mayor for that matter) express an opinion on a police matter before an investigation was fully completed? Why should anyone risk his or her life in the name of the NYPD for little pay and crappy support from above? And why hasn't some enterprising attorney visited the family of the cop whose police commissioner may have contributed to his psychological downfall? If the family of the first "victim" gets a trip to the bank, why not the family of a true victim?

And while (s)he's at it, might as well go after some of the money that went to the pseudo victim's family; stranger cases have been made!

* Did anyone note the dilemma of removing the gun from the house of the officer? After reading the thread on Van's forum and reading the dialogue between Panther and Ian/Paul, I found that whole discussion very interesting.

* When should we pull people off of life's treadmill, and when should we treat them with the hair of the dog that bit them?

* What of the conflict between maintaining the city budget (and keeping lazy people from milking the system) vs. recognizing and compensating for true PTSD? And what of the ultimate "I'll show you!!" act?

- Bill


[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited December 28, 2000).]
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Van Canna
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Post by Van Canna »

What is even sadder, this individual's wife fell down the stairs of their apartment while her husband was away in Chicago for the several days of the world championship.
She also sprained an ankle.

Now husband and wife never separated, not even for a moment 24_7__ they ran a business together, which I suppose is okay as far as smothering each other goes Image__

What is not okay, is that upon learning of his wife's fall, this person proceeded to berate GEM for having pulled them apart for a weekend, and thus set the stage for the broken hearted fall. Image

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
I can never bring you to realize the importance of sleeves, the suggestiveness of thumb-nails, or the great issues that may hang from a boot-lace.
~Sir Arthur Conan Doyle~

GEM Sensei: as you say, what fun would it be without our paper phantoms?



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Ted Dinwiddie
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Post Traumatic Stress Disorder

Post by Ted Dinwiddie »

I have some questions, based on the posts so far.

Is PTSD more severe in those whose trauma was preceded by an attitude of invulnerability?

Does consciousness of one's falibility and acceptance of it make one less vulnerable to PTSD?

Is there a process of recovery from trauma that is "normal" and not characterized as a disorder?

thanks

ted
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Post by paul giella »

Van,
I have a story that illustrates your point very well. A patient I treated several years ago who developed alcoholism and PTSD after he was robbed and beaten nearly to death by three guys who thought they were breaking in to a drug dealer's house. They got the wrong house. Surprised my guy while he was sitting on the couch watching TV. They basically left him for dead when they couldn't find the drugs they thought were there. Besides the serious physical injuries (which, fortunately, healed)the psychological injuries included a terrible blow to his pride and sense of his own strength. He was a very accomplished boxer, had won many bouts, and was used to thinking of himself as invulnerable. When I met him, about a year after the event, he was still having the terrible nightmares, reliving the event, startling easily. He had discovered that a beer or two helped calm his nerves. The beer or two at first led to several everyday and before he knew it he had acquired an addiction.That particular man had many basic strengths to build on and he got better and did well. But the point is well made that those of us who pride ourselves on our self-defense abilities may have farther to fall than the average person.
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Post by paul giella »

Ted,
I am not aware of formal research on the questions you ask -good questions- so I'll answer from experiences I and colleagues have shared.
As I noted above to Van, I think those who have wrapped themselves in an unrealistic mantle of invulnerability probably do suffer a unique element to their PTSD...the blow to their pride. Depending on their character make-up they might then handle their recovery in a number of ways. Van cites the student who blamed Uechi-ryu for his loss. I suppose a rather lame effort to preserve his self-respect ('it wasn't me that was weak, it was the stupid moves taught by my stupid teacher'). a healthier and altogether more adaptive response would be to take a long, hard look at what your real ability really is, to train harder to compensate for areas of weakness, and to come to terms with the fact that we are all vulnerable to some people in some situations.
As to what predisposes to PTSD, there is some writing on that. Persons with weak basic foundations can obviously have their mental integrity shattered more easily than those described as 'resilient'. Resilience is a difficult term to define. It is difficult to pin it directly to any specific influences or experiences. Resilient persons "bounce back" from the slings and arrows of outragious fortune better than the average person. Here's an interesting true tale of resilience: a researcher at a univrsity in Hawaii a few years ago was studying your very question (does pre-existing trauma predict a worse than average response to new trauma?). A hurricane was predicted to hit hte islands imminently. The researcher predicted that the persons who would fare worst were the ones from deprived or difficult backgrounds. What actually happened? Not only did the deprived subjects surive with less injury BUT SO DID THEIR HOUSES. What kind of sense did this make? Upon closer examination what the researcher found was that those people had taken the hurricane warnings seriously and had prepared their homes for the storm! She concluded that, not only were they not weakened by their childhood deprivation, they actually learned a valuable lesson, which protected them in a time of great stress. She described those persons as resilient, and talked about the great value of resilience to psychological functioning.
Does this story mean that childhood deprivation and trauma is a good thing? No, not necessarily. But it tells us that we can learn life-lessons that will stand us in good stead when faced woth adversity IF WE ARE PREPARED TO PAY ATTENTION TO THEM. Chance is said to favor the prepared mind. The mind open to lessons.
You also ask what helps us recover more quickly when we have been exposed to trauma. In my opinion, the more open we are to looking for the lif-lessons, the more quickly we will heal. this is why therapists urge persons with PTSD to talk about it, in groups or one-to-one. Good, honest, old-fashioned introspecton and sharing with others does seem to make a difference. Denial of effects, "identification with the aggressor" (a psychological defense mechanism whereby we make the inward decision to become mean because we have been the victim of meanness), diving into a bottle, etc.... these methods only prolong the suffering.
One element of sensei Van Canna's message that speaks directly to this issue is his focus on the realities of our skill limits. Was it Socrates who said "Know thyself"?
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Post by paul giella »

Van,
I had a good old childhood friend who studied martial arts under the protagonist of your Chicago story. Even years after the event that teacher held the Uechi world in disdain. He even seemed to force a kind of 'glass ceiling' on the rank my friend could ultimately achieve because he knew he was my friend... my indirect uechi influence could have corrupted the purity of their style, just because we were friends! Sounds pretty cultish, dunnit'?
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

I'm going to bring up one more interesting point to ponder from the Dateline story.

With the original shooting, we observe the following sequence of events.

* The wife (or neighbor) calls 911

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
911 tape: “Female complainant, private house she says... male at the door is armed with a gun...”
* Officers go to the source of the complaint. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>When the officers arrived at the house, they found a woman inside, protecting herself and her young son. Outside, the boy’s father, 39-year-old Alfred Sanders — enraged, and according to the officers, armed not with a gun but with a knife.

Officer Rogers: “Sal would say to him, ‘Alright, you need to put the knife down,’ or I’d tell him, ‘Put the knife down.’ And he said, ‘No.’”

This was one of the scenarios cops dread the most — an armed disturbed person who wasn’t listening. The police maintained their distance, using what is now known as the zone of safety, and kept him safely at bay for nearly 10 minutes. But they say he continued to taunt them and threaten to stab himself with the knife.

Police radio call to headquarters: “Yeah, he’s out on the street Central, he’s holding the knife on himself, he’s threatening to stab himself Central.”<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Did they do anything to taunt the individual? <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
According to Julian, the cops performed so well that night — by keeping an armed man at a distance for as long as they could, and then firing only when they perceived their lives to be in danger — their tactics actually became part of new departmental procedures for dealing with similar situations.
Nevertheless... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Thomas A. Rogers: “I remember him yelling something about, ‘Shoot me! I’m not putting down the knife!’ And then, you know, ah, then he just decided that was it. He charged.”

Hoda Kotbe: “Charged?”

Rogers: “I mean, he charged. You could see it. It’s like a bull coming after a flag. And then, all hell broke loose.”<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And then we have a community outraged because of a "racial shooting." And of course the press bought into it and fanned the flames. As the song says, We need dirty laundry.

And then we have a family (once frightened by an abusive husband) angry enough to sue the NYPD.

Pardon me for sounding insensitive, but...

* What was the real intent of the charging Mr. Sanders? Am I the only one that sees a terrible irony about this whole situation? Why hasn't someone - at some point - come out and actually used the unmentioned word here?

* Did it really make any difference from the standpoint of the officers on the other end of the knife?

* Would it have made any difference if everyone - from the beginning - knew of the real mindset of Mr. Sanders? Would it have helped them handle the situation differently? Would it have changed the course of Sal's PTSD?

Interesting questions...with probably no good answers. We can only ponder.

- Bill
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Post by Gilbert MacIntyre »

The affects of PTSD can be devastating. Just because someone makes it through the incident and maybe even through the next week, month, or year/years doesn't mean the incident isn't still affecting them.

I belong to a provincial debriefing team for Nova Scotia Fire Service. I've been in on a few touchy ones mostly dealing with fires although I did a couple for the Swiss Air 111 crash.

As for understanding how the process works, it was always a little cloudy to me, even after all the training and actually doing debriefings, until I needed one. After that debriefing everything was perfectly clear.

If we aren't taken through the incident methodically by someone who knows how to help us, the possibility that we will at sometime have a reaction is great. By the way we use the "Mitchell Model" here

Not only should we worry about such a devastating result as suicide, but as a professional fire fighter I want to know that if I walk into the same type situation again, my partner isn't going to freeze up and be someone else for me to get out, rather than helping me stay alive.

The same thing will affect us as trained martial artists. Should we end up on the wrong end of a altercation, we may revert back to that moment, anytime the same set of events trigger our memory.

The few debriefings I've been in that dealt with police had one slant we don't worry about in the fire service. It seems that they are worried that if they are involved in any psychological treatment they will have their guns taken from them, and they may be assigned to a desk. If this is needed fine, but we can't expect people to ask for help if we are going to hang them out for everybody to gossip about.

These debriefings really have to be accepted by the (group of) people who need them. They should be considered normal operations after any call, just like the paper work. You have to learn to sit down and talk and talk and talk the incident through until you have accepted the fact that we are all human and you did what you thought was right at the time, there is no going back, so grow and move forward.
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Post by Panther »

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bill Glasheen:

* First of all, is there any way anyone can put a gag on Al Sharpton? How many times has he run his mouth in the name of a pointless or subsequently invalidated cause? Who elected him representative of any group anyhow?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortuantely, he's a politically protected species.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
* Why in god's name would a police commissioner (or mayor for that matter) express an opinion on a police matter before an investigation was fully completed? Why should anyone risk his or her life in the name of the NYPD for little pay and crappy support from above? And why hasn't some enterprising attorney visited the family of the cop whose police commissioner may have contributed to his psychological downfall? If the family of the first "victim" gets a trip to the bank, why not the family of a true victim?
I would suspect that the commisioner and mayor were pressured by the Sharptons of the world.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
* Did anyone note the dilemma of removing the gun from the house of the officer? After reading the thread on Van's forum and reading the dialogue between Panther and Ian/Paul, I found that whole discussion very interesting.
Careful Glasheen-sempai, it's obvious that the gun was the problem! Image

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
* When should we pull people off of life's treadmill, and when should we treat them with the hair of the dog that bit them?
The answer will vary depending on the person's perspective that is being asked.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
* What of the conflict between maintaining the city budget (and keeping lazy people from milking the system) vs. recognizing and compensating for true PTSD? And what of the ultimate "I'll show you!!" act?
This is probably the toughest one of all... Unfortunately, there are too many who have "beat the system" for an easy retirement outraging the taxpaying public and gaining media attention. That causes the evaluation boards as mentioned in the the articles to err on the side of not properly helping someone who truly needs it. Contrary to the way it's been played out, my arguments aren't against the mental health profession per se. Nor are they against the many fine psychologists/psychiatrists/Social-workers who help people deal with issues every day. My arguments are against the stigma of a supposed "mental illness", just like the stigma that the officer in the article was burdened with. My argument is with the fact that in some States, merely visiting a psychologist becomes grounds for denying someone their RKBA, when that person may be perfectly fine and only needed to talk over some stressful issues with someone. That type of stigma prevents people from seeking the help that they need, just as it will prevent cops from seeking help because of what happened to this officer... Then again, some (I'd argue 'too many') "mental health professionals" have bought into the role of "only doing what's best for society".

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Van Canna:

The same feelings are experienced by victims of assault, such as a street fight, or a confrontation, even as they thought they possessed some defensive skills from their practice of martial arts.

The sense of passivity or paralysis becomes even more insidious to the psyche, if you were to take a serious beating in spite of your high Dan rank and perceived fighting skills as per your martial arts training.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMNSHO, it's even worse if the person has previously survived other encounters and because of some inner (perhaps PTSD related) feelings, hesitates for even an instant when the time happens again... resulting in a pretty good beating. I bet that's one that takes a while to get over...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
How about that? Doesn't it make you want to sell your guns, rip up your SOKE diploma and curl up into the fetal position waiting for a quick end? Image
It can... Image

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
But of course what are really the chances of anything like that happening to you?
Or twice! fercryingoutloud! That's just, well... paranoid!

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Hell, you guys are all paranoid! Image
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!
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