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 Post subject: Uechi Kata
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:35 pm 
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A few excerpts on Kata from one translation of Master Uechi’s book_Old Kyhon_ as sent to me by Carlos Ciriza:


From the book:

Quote:
By spotting this lapse in an opponent is to spot a weakness and the advantage should be taken by turning the opponents power around and use it against him. This is true Zanshin. Again don't stop once a thrust is initiated.

The way to train with this ancient Kata Sanchin from Uechi-Ryu is that the resources you have can be developed more through Jiyu Kumite I think. This is a more reliable method for training and tempering of the basics through the use of the kata and through controlled sparring.

You have more freedom as you develop Jiyu Kumite. The truth of Budo in Karate will be evident. There is room to change, and the way is hard work and study.

In recent years Karate Do's path or base has emanated from Okinawa. The prosperity of course comes from Okinawa also. The information coming out of Okinawa on Karate has been increased greatly.

This is all part of a change in the way information is disseminated. This form of popularization is increasing greatly.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:39 pm 
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Through contests and controlled sparring matches there have a multitude of information exchanges some still think this idea is dangerous. The only danger here is not talking to the public one on one.

The idea behind learning Karate in the old days was for a singular purpose of survival.

Now days both the idealogy of self defense and sports are being sought as outlets for stress and are being popularized back in olden times the freedom to defend yourself was paramount.

Learning Karate back then one had to do it in secret. The freedom we have now was nothing like it was in the old days.

Back then the adaptation to circumstances was to improve ones skills for survival. The Art of Jiyu Kumite was also used to enhance ones skills in secret also.

The idea behind Jiyu Kumite during practice with an opponent was to exchange offensive/defensive techniques for the betterment of the individual.

You had to be careful also because some of the blows properly executed and not checked at the last minute could prove injurious or fatal to your opponent.

But as conditioning is continued a blow once in a while can be taken with minimal injury. That is why it is important to temper the body correctly.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:42 pm 
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Quote:
Some of the explanations of Kata are new but the way Kata is defined as a model this idea should already be understood. The basics have to stay the same. The traditions have to stay the same.

If they were not they would not have never come this far and to study Kata leads to other areas i.e., self-confidence and personnel growth. In fact to think and practice the Kata as it was done in ancient times and supplement it with Jiyu-Kumite is very good.


To condition this way also leads to building a stronger more defined character. By the studying Kata the old way :?: :?: you see your mistakes better and less explanation would be needed. Now the idea is to write down your mistakes and practice on your weak areas to develop your Kata to a higher level.

One must drill the body to be swift in movement during any of the Kata. In Seisan when you’re actually using it for fighting purposes stay with the basics. This way through repetition you polish yourself.

Speed will come eventually _ try not to run through the Kata. But provided that you have mastered the Kata, when in action you can practice certain techniques with speed of delivery.

This at times is a good training technique. The correct way for the Kata to be done and to properly train the body is to follow a slow steady course. This way I believe you will achieve more in the long run.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:46 pm 
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Quote:
Generally in the art of war the way to victory or defeat is get your opponent to divide his energies this will be a benefit to you if the desire is strong enough and the spirit strong enough any enemy can be defeated. Therefore when an opponent shows his intentions he is giving YOU Valuable clues to his downfall.

But who makes the first move? This cannot be overlooked. It must be acted upon.

That is why in Bugei the opponent or, person that strikes first decides the battle or, contest. This idea is a hard one to cope with let alone understand.

To stop the flow of information from an opponent and make use of it is to ensure you some kind of foothold. This is another tool from the Art of War. To openly read opponents spirit is another useful tool. To stop an opponent before he acts is also ideal.

To not develop these attitudes would prevent you from effectively dealing with an opponent.

If an opponent for example starts a movement which will we name (Ka) this is for, the first move. If conditions stay the same, the opponent goes to his second move, which we will call (To) and if the conditions remain the same he will move onto the third character (Ki). This is a tolerable attitude but it should not be used very often.



If an opponent were to use this type of methodology in war it may not work. This is for the simple reason that if his opponent is smarter ¬and quicker, he will achieve Sente and gain the upper hand and possibly win.

That is why there must be freedom of movement with no set pattern. Let the mind body, and spirit to guide you. This point is most important.

It is correct that you are trying to restrain your opponent or check him in a way where it’s almost passive in nature.

It depends also on the circumstances. So now which is to be the Art of War to go step by step with an opponent or have the freedom of technique with no set manner?

The freedom of technique would be used to draw an opponent out easier I believe. It also depends on the state of things around you during a conflict.

That is why it takes an expert to determine these things.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:39 pm 
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It's me again!! ( I know, I can hear the mutterings and oaths from here!) :roll:

But it sounds like he is trying to give an explanation of Sen:

http://karatejutsu.blogspot.com/2006/05/making-sense-of-sen.html

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:42 pm 
Thank you Van , and thanks Carlos 8)

very clear message .


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:59 pm 
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Old Kyohn
Quote:
The idea behind learning Karate in the old days was for a singular purpose of survival.

Now days both the idealogy of self defense and sports are being sought as outlets for stress and are being popularized back in olden times the freedom to defend yourself was paramount.

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Van


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:12 pm 
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muy buen material,
este libro en ingles es una gran ayuda.

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チャールズ


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:52 pm 
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Yes, Carlos, this english translation it is a great help _ thank you.

People will realize that it is Master kanei Uechi 'speaking' _

Regards,

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:29 am 
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From master Kanei Uechi’s blue book
Quote:
But who makes the first move? This cannot be overlooked. It must be acted upon.

That is why in Bugei the opponent or, person that strikes first decides the battle or, contest. This idea is a hard one to cope with let alone understand.


~~~


And Tim Larkin sees it this way
Quote:
Unfortunately today, very little effort is made to
properly train your mind for violent confrontation.

In
fact most martial arts and combat sports go out of
their way to actually negate this "primary weapon
system" by focusing on defensive-based training.

Their
programs revolve around REACTING to your attacker's
actions rather than focusing your actions on DEFEATING
the threat.

This defensive thinking causes you to hesitate as
your mind tries to figure out what is happening rather
than focusing on "targets" of opportunity.

By constantly drilling on blocks and on counters to
attacks, and through being told never to initiate
action, your mind habitually attempts to protect you
by reacting to what is happening -- rather than
helping you to defeat your attacker.

Correct training of your mind is the CRITICAL
component that unleashes your ability to take
advantage of all the other weapons available to you.

Give your mind the wrong command ... and you
hesitate; hesitation causes fear; and fear causes you
to freeze, leading to an often-disastrous result in a
true life or death struggle with a violent thug.

Many people give lip service to offensive or
aggressive thought training.

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Van


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:39 am 
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Tim Larkin scribed:
Quote:
This defensive thinking causes you to hesitate as
your mind tries to figure out what is happening rather
than focusing on "targets" of opportunity.


It also causes you to possibly pull your punches or kicks!! Because you have that little voice in the back of your brain doubting what you are doing is correct.

I've seen several well trained MA practitioners get caught in this syndrome....especially with a lack of makiwara or bag work.

::Live or death:: Where is the quandary??

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:31 pm 
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Quote:
Some of the explanations of Kata are new but the way Kata is defined as a model this idea should already be understood. The basics have to stay the same. The traditions have to stay the same. etc. etc. etc.

Van, doesn't this post pretty well describe what most of us, as teachers of traditional Uechi-ryu, maybe better described as American style, :?:, give our students every day? Using what has been passed on to us as students and then expanding, adding our own individual agenda, example: our own little "secret" fighting teniques, other things that,,,work,,,. To me, this is a good teacher, teach Uechi, follow the book, and then go on from there. I'm not sure where this quote came from, maybe from one of GEM sensei's books, but it impressed me enough that I made up a copy, framed it and put on the dojo wall. Maybe someone knows the origin and the exact quote:
"As imperfect as I am, I strive to make my students perfect." That may not be exact but the point is, unselfishly, a good teacher is successful if he/she gives all they have to the student. The student in turn becomes a better teacher. Maybe I have drifted away from the original thought behind your post. :oops: Hope you get my point.
Bill B.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:05 pm 
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Bill,

Thank for the post and I agree with you 100% _

I am also following with interest the Three year sanchin discussion on Bill’s forum but keeping my posts there at a minimum lest I be accused once again of ‘high-jacking threads’ _ it seems that if you have a different opinion and express it passionately, then you are a ‘highjacker’ _

For example, I know you love sanchin [so do I_ not one day goes by that I don’t practice it intensely as you have seen me do at the Shinkookai]

And as to sanchin kata _ we don’t want to get away from the focus of the importance of sanchin, and disparage Max on his three years practice belief_ he is doing what works for him best and I applaud him.

It is a very important kata [exercise…as some believe it is _rather than a kata_ ask around] _

The benefits of its practice are legion [yet there has been a downside indicated as you will read in a moment] _

It is like a foundation to a house, physical and mental ‘centering’ iron shirt and power mechanics for delivery on target without having to use hips gyrations, rather launching a strike by subtle body torque as we see a ‘Rabesa’ do in such ‘terminal ways’ _ and there is more.

Question is…

Is it truly necessary to have to practice sanchin for three years before moving on to bigger/better things [if you believe the other two main kata are bigger and better as a goal of your training] or can ‘bigger / better things be developed at once due to training evolution?


These are reasonable questions and reasonable thoughts expressed by reasonable and intelligent new students.

Quote:
Uechi Kanei added material taught in
this art. He devised a set of preliminary and supplementary exercises to warm up the student and to teach him basic
karate skills. He also created five bridging katas, which server as stepping stones between the three main kata taken from Pangai-noon.

He also devised several pre-arranged sparring drills designed to teach the skills needed for free style
sparring.

Uechi Kanei kept teaching in Futenma until he died on February 2, 1991.


Why would Kanbun’s son change his father’s training method? Why did he not insist on a three year sanchin practice for all students?

Are we harming our beginner students by even showing them more advanced kata?

Rabesa will tell you that in the days of the Columbus ave dojo, George would shut the dojo door while the more senior people were practicing Sanseiryu_

I am sure George had a good reason for it but many people still wonder why it was done_maybe he will explain on line.


So the question is _ Are the Uechi masters of today [in Okinawa or the world] worse off or better off _ and why_ for not having trained sanchin exclusively for three years before learning another Uechi move? If worse off_ tell us how you measure that_

Max is of course not implying any of this..he just trains according to his own beliefs which must be respected.


Image

Now here is something worth looking at_


Quote:
Many Okinawan Karate authorities criticize the regular practice of Sanchin Kata for health reasons. Sanchin is a pseudo-isotonic and pseudo-isometric exercise which enables one to achieve and sustain a high heart rate with low impact.

The deep tension breathing in Sanchin also opens the lungs, increases blood circulation, opens the capillaries, strengthens the heart muscle, massages the lymph system, and opens epidermal glands.

However, Sanchin has also been blamed for the early deaths of many Okinawan karate masters, mainly from the Naha-Te based Karate styles, which practice Sanchin rigorously.

The incorrect practice of Sanchin results in physiological damage due to the rapid, drastic haemostatic pressure changes and hastens the onset of a stroke or aneurysm to those individuals prone to arteriosclerosis.

When Sanchin is practiced correctly, without putting excess strain on the smaller arteries and the bowels, it proves beneficial. Forced Sanchin practice increases blood pressure due to strain placed on small arteries of the body.


 incorrect practice of Sanchin <

What is this? So many seniors like to make this statement but don’t like to explain on line what it means and what the correct way…is

So from a medical viewpoint _ what do we eliminate from Sanchin that might hurt us as above?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:33 pm 
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Quote:
However, Sanchin has also been blamed for the early deaths of many Okinawan karate masters, mainly from the Naha-Te based Karate styles, which practice Sanchin rigorously.

Life expectancy is growing and science is certainly improving our understanding of everything we do. I have worked production lines for 30 years...Ergonomics has greatly changed what I do and how I do it. New line workers will likely have better health because of better understanding of movement. It is astounding the little quirks in repetitive movement that can destroy your body...Sanchin I am positive can do the same. I have changed some aspects of my sanchin from by an Orthopedic surgen when I took level 1National Coaching certification (not sport specific). He certainly didn`t understand the kata but he knows body structure and Sport Medicine is his feild. Another example is herbal medications, some herbs can treat a problem but eventually destroy the liver...At one time that was not likely an issue as life expectancy was short anyway.
Science proved beyond a dought that the Earth is not flat, science can certainly improve all our training methods. What the Okinawans that trained themselves to an early grave were NOT wrong...However, it is wrong to ignore a lesson learned.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:36 am 
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Van I believe that students can be taught more advanced katas at any time in their training. They can learn the kata physically, go through the moves until they have it all "down.' But,,if I can push someone over in the middle of their kata, or move into an attack and they have nothing in the way of strength, what good is it? I guess I don't understand the reasoning. We both know there are no short cuts, it takes time to develope strength, conditioning, balance and speed. Do you agree that when we sit on a promotion board we are looking for these qualities? How are they developed if not through the work of, for lack of a better description, sanchin? I admit ignorance when it comes to the health factor you mention. You know my story, I honestly believe that I am still here mostly because of my training and my physical and mental strength given to me by sanchin. Knowing and respecting you so well, I trust what you say. I just don't understand. AND, as I stated on Bill's site, I feel at this point that you have found something to add rather than replace. Though it is late for me, I still seek more understanding. I am in Florida enjoying the warmth and golf. You can be sure, when I get back, Art and I will be up to see you and the "troops." :lol:
Respectfully,
Bill


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