300 Spartans had the way! Frank milller: Were all spoiled.

[AAAhmed46]

Read through my posts, Adam. You're writing too fast. You've been emotionally hijacked by him when I think you shouldn't be.

Sleep on it, brother.

- Bill

I guess i should.

For the record, i hope your right, ive always admired Miller's work.

That admiration probably has a lot to do with my reaction.

[Glenn]

I meant to say the THREAD isn't about the movie.

It's about Millers comments.

Yes, I understand that. And I sympathize that you take particular offense to Miller's comments in the NPR interview because you use to admire him but view his comments as wrong. I'm just pointing out that most of the objections in places like Iran are based solely on the movie, they have never heard of Frank Miller nor are they likely to ever hear the interview. For that matter few in America will ever hear it as NPR interviews rarely get much exposure outside of NPR, and NPR is not exactly high on the listenership scale.

[AAAhmed46]

Iran is a non-issue.

No point in taking something like this seriously.

EDIT:

I can see why thier sensitive, but the fact is that i doubt many people seeing the movie will connect Persians with Iranians

I doubt the persians even saw the movie.

From what i gather from the graphic novel of 300, the graphic novel was focussed on the bravery of the Spartans and didn't have as much of the political content as the movie.

Thing is this....

I KNOW ill like the movie, from an outlook looking at it purely from the view of entertainment.

[Bill Glasheen]

One thing I enjoyed about the movie was the battle scenes.

Military historians have written quite a bit about the phalanx. It is what made the Greek Empire possible. In the movie, you get a chance to see it in action. You also get to see some clever use of terrain to confront an enemy many times your size in numbers. And you get to see how important mindset and military training is in battle. You may be too young to remember the Fauklan Island war, or the details of Desert Storm. But essentially proper operant conditioning of the soldier rules on the battle field.

And do you remember exactly which Spartans were chosen for this suicide mission? Why was that? (Soooo important...)

And then there were the scenes depicting tachypsychia. It wasn't just cool visuals...

I saw what 99% of the viewing audience would never appreciate. If you've done your martial arts homework, you'd understand it and see it as well. It wasn't an "A" movie, but then it was an excellent weave of fact, fiction, and cultural context.

- Bill

[AAAhmed46]

How can one pull off a one man phalanx


If Miler is talking in the context your talking about Bill, then i agree with him.

[TSDguy]

It wasn't an "A" movie, but then it was an excellent weave of fact, fiction, and cultural context.

Spoilers sort of



If only there was no dialogue! Interestingly enough, many of the more memorable lines were (supposedly ) historical.

"Our arrows will blot out the sun."
"Then we will fight in the shade."

"Lay down your arms."
"Come and get them."

And the bit about wanting some "Earth and water" as a sign of surrender was given to the Persians by the 'toss them into the well' scene. "Dig them out for yourselves." The Athenians chucked their messengers in a pit as well.

[IJ]

"I can see why thier sensitive, but the fact is that i doubt many people seeing the movie will connect Persians with Iranians."

Well, I'm not so sure. First, persians and iranians are in some contexts synonyms, so it wouldn't event be an error to connect them. Many an Iranian I've met on both coasts have introduced themselves as persians.

Second, we're talking about America, where the majority of the population believes that the earth and all life was created less than 10k years ago, and where substantial fractions (I believe a majority, at least of Bush supporters, and at least at one point) believed that we HAD found (past tense( WMD in Iraq and that Iraq and Al Qaeda was in cahoots over 9/11. I don't think its that much of a stretch to see the movie as a call to arms to fight a modern arab threat (NB: not saying that's automatically bad) and I am certain many will equate the ancient and modern arabs. The thing that might throw off the most movie goers is that instead of persians, the spartans appear to be fighting africans who made a pitstop in Seattle for piercings and maybe some tats. They sure as heck don't look like one of the other physicians in my group, who, for all her turkish roots, is blond and light-eyed--on one extreme, but the movie seems focused on the other, especially with their messenger.

[Bill Glasheen]

we're talking about America, where the majority of the population believes

I could easily argue, Ian, that your view of the average American shows a bit of elitism/arrogance on your part. In any case, your "buttons" are showing...

persians and iranians are in some contexts synonyms

That's precisely the understanding that Adam was trying to convey. He was suggesting that your average Joe on the street may not realize that Iranians are for the most part Persians. And frankly it's probably a good thing. I don't think Frank Miller intended to stir up hate for either Middle Easterners or Muslims.

I don't think its that much of a stretch to see the movie as a call to arms to fight a modern arab threat (NB: not saying that's automatically bad) and I am certain many will equate the ancient and modern arabs.

Newsflash - Persians are not Arabs. And the ancient Persians were not muslim. Furthermore, neither muslim nor Arab was mentioned in the film.

The thing that might throw off the most movie goers is that instead of persians, the spartans appear to be fighting africans who made a pitstop in Seattle for piercings and maybe some tats.

It was the Persian EMPIRE, Ian. They made that point repeatedly in the movie. Xerxes suppressed the revolts in Egypt and Babylon that had broken out in 486 BC and appointed his brother Achaemenes as governor over Egypt, bringing Egypt under very strict rule. That would mean his empire and consequently his army would stretch into North Africa.

It's also worth mentioning that tattooing existed in virtually every civilization, and the practice goes back over ten thousand years. And the oldest mummified body ever found had body piercings.

- Bill

[AAAhmed46]

Lets not forget, this movie is not, and was not meant to be historically accurate.

Though id like to point out that the Greeks were just as darker, arguebly darker looking then the Persians(arguebly)


Alsol....... it was 300 spartans and 7000 greeks(note that IT WAS STILL UN UPHILL BATTLE FOR THE GREEKS so it's still a brave act)

[AAAhmed46]

[QUOTE=mrblackmagic]Considering when he wrote the story, Image comics (or as Allen, the old guy at my comic shop, said "new heroes with ##### piercings and bad ##### attitudes) just got off the ground. I would assume he took a creative license to make historical figures approachable (and "cool") to a generation x audience.

Which Xerxes works better today?



or


This is millers more badass version of Xerxes for the sake of entertainment.
[/QUOTE]


My brother saw the movie and loved it, so im having the same conversation of this thread with him essentially.

[AAAhmed46]

JON STEWART WINS AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjHE3Z91jPI&eurl=

[Stryke]

Hey lets face it most in the modern world dont even know what an Aryan is

I agree that todays problems are mainly cultural , I think Miller indirectly made a case that he sees cultural problems on both sides(I`m sure we`d differ in what those are) , and I do agree all cultures are not created equal .

Democracy is a tricky concept , but we dont have a better one , the biggest problem being it requires a certain faith in mr everyman , it`s somethng most of us should struggle with ....

I think the real probelm is we dont hold ourselves to higher standards all round , and in this case I mean everyone .

I see too much do whatever it takes , and not enough whatever it takes to do right , and there is a difference .

maybe too much warrior culture , and not enough cultured warriors .

we need to learn from history , not repeat it .

flame away ....

[AAAhmed46]

In what context though? I mean all cultures are in flux, always changing.

Right now, European culture is arguably more sophisticated then the middle east.

But in days past, it was the other way around.

So i guess i am being paranoid.

But comparing cultures is a tricky thing, because there is so much to cultures and they change all the time.


Hell in ww2 japan was fascist.

But today, look at japan now!


I hope my point came across clear.

[Stryke]

i`m talking todays cultures

it`s a touchy subject Adam , it`s the phsyche of people and not necessarilly the level of acheivement , though I`m sure there inter related .

you can see a real change happening across the world , it will be a fascinating future . I hope we get it right .

[AAAhmed46]

What scares me is that there is a large movement against secularism.

This puzzles me, because in this world, a growing world where more and more different types of people are living together, a secularism should be on the rise.


But it isn't, the opposite is happening.

Why are people so bitter toward secularism?


I hope the rest of the east can follow the examples of Turkey and Malaysia(though not spot free, they are in far better shape then the rest of the area)