Zen/Zin

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Stryke

Zen/Zin

Post by Stryke »

Hey David exsactly right Image

Now where deffinately getting to philosophy , Im a Shotokan practioner so from my interpratation less is more , no waste of motion , no excess effort yet generating maximum power , no double movements etc , this is what I strive for in kata .

I guess my ideal of kata leans towards conformity and traditionalisim , two things i dont consider myself , but more and more i see kata as a seperate entity , not Bunkai not basics , but a constant struggle and search , I dont profess any great knowledge of eastern philosophy, but an unobtainable goal has appeal to me .

I believe there is perfect kata , just that we are not able to acheive it , believe it or not where all flawed , The ideal may only be in my mind that doesnt mean it does not exist .

Interpretation , style , change , they are constantly evolving but the ideal does not , effortless , seamless , power , fluidity and focus , I no longer strive for a mindset in Kata , I simply try to let me be me .

The perfect one thing you perfect everything is a bit tounge in cheek , to me it really means if it was possible to perfect one thing then everything could be perfect , I know this is not a reality but its a worthy aspiration .

To perform a kata as completely simply and well , to do it without conflict and just express myself , to cut away the excess and just be the kata , this to me is a form of pure self exspression , the individual makes the kata , not the kata the individual .

As for the perfect kata ive not seen it , a couple of times ive been lucky enough to see beautiful kata (and i mean spiritual moving kata ) , this is to me the art part of my martial arts .

Hard to communicate this clearly but im still glad i tried , happy training all

Stryke

[This message has been edited by Stryke (edited January 05, 2002).]
hoshin
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Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 6:01 am
Location: worcester, ma

Zen/Zin

Post by hoshin »

Image

David - Stryke;
you both shoot the arrow directly at the target center which is good, but still miss the mark..

i find these forums very good but sometimes words get it the way. i tend to loose people and i too loose the meaning in what they are trying to convey, Zen is such a difficult topic as is. the old timers would roll over in thier graves( to talk about zen is not zen and therefor a taboo)

If we want a zen perspective on kata, pefection is not the moves, physical actions, bunkai ect..but in the heart, soul and mind.

notice when i said to copy ( a worthy persons) calligraphy, (could also be kata), but i was meaning that what is being copied was perfect....to quote david (authentic) authentic i like that, to me this means done with a pure mind & heart. in zen we would say it was done with samadhi.

the western archer can hit the target but will miss the the goal.
the zen archer may miss the bulls eye but suceed in hitting the target and thus he hits himself..

styke ..to hit the zen target you have learned the ONE thing and can therefore swing a sword, throw a punch, make a brush stroke, walk down the steet, all with a pure heart& mind (samadhi)..all authentic actions

all is growth all is change, but the human condition and his heart remains the same


just my ramblings
Hoshin
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david
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Location: Boston, MA

Zen/Zin

Post by david »

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
If we want a zen perspective on kata, pefection is not the moves, physical actions, bunkai ect..but in the heart, soul and mind.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hosin,

Ahh, but I think you and are on the same wavelength here. Some see the "perfect" kata as moving along prescribed lines, angles and timing. I would argue that this taking the "finger" for the moon. If there were "perfection", for me, it would be the harmony of the "heart, mind and soul" in congruence with the physical (limitations and all) and the conditions in which the total is happening.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>all is growth all is change, but the human condition and his heart remains the same
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The latter part of this statement could be fodder for a great discussion. Does the "heart" remain the same and we need only to find it? Or can we change our "heart?" The "human condition" is the medium in which we find out.

Image

david
DS1050
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Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 6:01 am
Location: lakeland, fl 33813

Zen/Zin

Post by DS1050 »

Zen is life. We don't do Sanchin, we are Sanchin.... Life is Kata; Kata is Zen.
Stephen M Perry
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Zen/Zin

Post by Stephen M Perry »

It is like a fish asking what is water.
respectfully Stephen Perry
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