Why did you turn to the east?

[Karateka]

The west has a proud martial heritage. We have all sorts of weapons from our past and different forms of fighting and self defense such as boxing, wrestling, kicking arts as well. What was it that made you want to learn an Asian art over a western one?

[Bill Glasheen]

In my case, I did both. I have boxed, and I have done Eastern arts.

The west really did not have a MARTIAL tradition until recently. Boxing and wrestling, like judo and taequondo, are sports. They help to teach you how to fight, but they are not fighting.

Real martial arts teach a broad spectrum of skills. Even most eastern arts miss the whole package, or perhaps it didn't all make it over this side of the pond. Fortunately we've got good people out there filling in the gaps.

Let us not underestimate the influence of a few good movies and TV shows. The early ones that ignited my interest were Green Hornet, Billy Jack, and Kung Fu. So much fun... So much mistique...

- Bill

[Guest]

What was it that made you want to learn an Asian art over a western one?

Being of border stock, my classical weapons would have included really big rocks, the pike and the winger. It's hard to locate really big rocks in an urban environment, and I'm out of shape , can not see me lugging them around all day.

The pike also kind of ***** as an EDC, you try getting on a bus with an 18 foot spear.

The winger is an effective blade but the Canadian government have declared them ilegal.....it's a blade length issue.

I like Bill have spent some time boxing.

I regret that when my clan was exiled to Ireland no one picked up a family stick fighting system to pass on to us young lads. You'd think that after spending 200 years with the Irish, and teaching them how to make real whiskey, they might share a few secrets about the shillelaghs. And they call us Scots cheap.

Oh well there are other island folk more than willing to teach stick work.

Laird

[Karateka]

The pike also kind of ***** as an EDC, you try getting on a bus with an 18 foot spear.

And getting on a bus with a bo/staff is easlier...

The winger is an effective blade but the Canadian government have declared them ilegal.....it's a blade length issue.

Chucks are ilegal in Canada as well, but many karateka use foam. It's not as practical as a big rock...

I like Bill have spent some time boxing.

Both boxing and wreslting are limited but so is karate. What boxing lacks, it makes up for it in reality. Much of karate is based in theory.

I regret that when my clan was exiled to Ireland no one picked up a family stick fighting system to pass on to us young lads.

No regrets here. We are trying to get Glen Doyle to come to our dojo and train, not to mention we have a medieval weapons school about 2 and a half hours away.

What makes the katana a better weapon to learn then say, the Scottish Claymore? Both are ancient and have little to do with modern fighting but I think most people would choose the katana.

Rambling...

[lookingglass]

Let me first say this...I am not an instructor so I hope not to offend anyones extensive experience in this.



"Boxing and wrestling, like judo and taequondo, are sports. They help to teach you how to fight, but they are not fighting."

What? That is funny to me because it seemed to all change when the UFC's came out...
I hate the UFC's and all the money that is being made in the turn of it being the ultimate fighting style...
Believe me if someone took me to the ground in real life it would not be 30 or 40 minutes playing with each other. I have friends and family and they will lend a foot and swing something to lend a hand.
Real fighting...? I have seen bar fights where niether guy had any dojo teaching and they punched the hell out of people and bottles were thrown. That was all out combat. What is different from a Muay Thia Boxers Round house to the teakwondo round house. They both kick and both can hurt both can be done very fast. Kness they are common. Elbows they are common also. Head butts I have used them. If you are referring to the idea that it is used in sport and they train to sport compitition fight then that is what it is...

Answer this. A man is not a gun slinger and he shots targets all day. He has never shot another person and goes out to some range and runs live fire drills.
You then put a man in front of him and they began to gun fight. The man that has trained to shoot moving targets seems more likely to shoot and stay controlled as his adversary moves and yes I dont know about those under fire but not on that concept yet.

My father told me that teakwondo is good but you simply have to understand that in a real fight you can use the tools but dont expect them to stand there and let you.
That is the only differnce, the mind set. There are those in Teakwondo and Jujitsu that I would rather mess with when I have a gun in my hand.

I just think placing boxing and Teakwondo in the catogorei of being soley sport is short sighted.
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[2Green]

Why did I turn to the East?
Once the realization set in that the world isn't getting freindlier, I 'm not getting younger, and I'm sitting in a wheelchair 'cause I threw my back out and can't walk for another 5 days, I decided I needed some useful fitness training. I excluded sitting in a gym staring at the wall while spinning a fake bike, etc., because I'm just not that kind of person...much prefer my real bike.
I excluded boxing and the like because I'm not a sports guy, and boxing seems to be for people who enjoy fighting as a sport...I don't.
To me a fight is an extremely brief, extremely violent encounter which must be dealt with as quickly as possible, and requires use of all and any body parts, and a sense of preparation so you know what you're doing.
I thought martial arts would fill the bill and provide an engaging learning experience to boot.
I liked the idea of Karate because it promised the inner toughness and destructibility you need when all the outer perimeter defenses have failed and you're in a corner.
Finding Uechi Ryu was a happy fluke, and once I got started, I was hooked.
Hooked by the learning, the challenge, the physical progress, and oddly, the people, whom I feel totally at home with; those I've met so far.
What I like about Uechi is that there's a real balance.
Good physical, good mental, and a feeling of being in with people I have a kindred interest with.

That's my experience.

NM

[TSDguy]

"The East" is what's available. I have no clue where to even begin looking for a class on claymores, and even if I found it there probably wouldn't be many people there = not much fun.

But actually the reason I joined any MA school was because of a list of extracurricular activities to mark off on a college application. Judo was listed and I thought that sounded pretty cool, so I said "what the hell." Maybe if "Medieval Weaponary" were listed I'd be a knight instead of blackbelt?

[Karateka]

Thx for all the answers. For me it was cost, travel costs mostly and the weapons are more expensive then traditional karate weapons.

[bustr]

"The west has a proud martial heritage. We have all sorts of weapons from our past and different forms of fighting and self defense such as boxing, wrestling, kicking arts as well. What was it that made you want to learn an Asian art over a western one?"

Availability. Boxing gyms are concerned with sport and there were no wrestling gyms when I started. You have to understand though, there is virtually nothing in karate, jujutsu or kungfu that can't be found in Western arts. Just look at some of the old Vechtbuchs at the Western MA sites.

Also karate kicks are a mostly Western contribution. Look at the karate forms and you'll see front and side snap kicks and forward stomps but no side thrust or roundhouse kicks. Lateral and round kicking is well documented in French boxing but was unknown in karate until karate fighters adopted it in the 20th century. Patrick McCarthy and Joseph Svinth have both speculated that these kicks originated in Khmer boxing. While I respect their views I just don't see ANY evidence of side or round kicks in 19th century Asian martial arts. They don't appear in the Bubishi or the first Chapasarat. Spinning kicks are absent too and probably have an Angolan origin.

It's only fair to say that karate comes from the whole world. The Eastern masters just provided an organizational model that wasn't dependant on a sporting competition. Then the Westerners took it and made it theirs just as the Okinawans did with Crane and Monk Fist boxing when they create Toudi.

[Deep Sea]

Answer this. A man is not a gun slinger and he shots targets all day. He has never shot another person and goes out to some range and runs live fire drills.
You then put a man in front of him and they began to gun fight. The man that has trained to shoot moving targets seems more likely to shoot and stay controlled as his adversary moves and yes I dont know about those under fire but not on that concept yet.

I've said time and time again that karate can make a fighter a much better fighter. A fighter can get a lot of advantages out of learning martial arts because when he learns a new technique, style doesn't matter, he already knows how to use it. The corollary is not true. It's the same as saying function first, then form.

In terms of east vs west, it could possibly what is available downtown on the corner. GIs returned from the Asian theater of WWII with a new knowledge and some hung a storefront sign advertising that knowledge. Same wasn't true about GIs returning from Europe.

Then there was the end of the Korean Conflict, and then Koreans came to live in the states en masse. They are business-minded people from A to Z, and Korean martial arts is only the T out of the entire alphabet. I wonder how many Englishmen or frenchmen moved to the US and started pugilistic training halls?

Supply and demand -- and effective advertising. Besides when I was young this karate thing had a mystique behind the rice eyes where boxing was just hard work and no promised magic.

That's how the spider catches the fly.

[bustr]

test

[Karateka]

Also karate kicks are a mostly Western contribution.

It was my understanding that it was a Korean contribution?

[bustr]

"It was my understanding that it was a Korean contribution?"

Nope. The koreans picked it up from the French the same way that they picked up karate from the Japanese and renamed it TKD then wrote a history for it. Traditional korean Tae Kyon kicks are forward stomps, snaps and leg sweeps. To my knowledge there isn't a shred of evidence for side thrust, roundhouse or spinning kicks in any traditional Far Eastern martial arts. These techniques come from Western Europe and Africa.

[Halford]

It is not a matter of turning to other things exactly but historically it was sort of this way for several reasons,namely WWII,possibly WWI,etc. plus we've always had a foot or interest in Asia at times,since before the Spanish-American War.Haven't time to go into personal details this morning but will get back to this interesting questions. Halford

[kyushoguy]

Hi

People do things if they have a mystery about them.
And Eastern arts have/had that.

So many cultural influences to these arts that make them appealing also.

But yes boxing is in my opinion as effective in the street as many MA's.

It is less aestheticlly pleasing though.

And harder to actually train in. Most MA's are no contact.

there would not be many children or girls getting in rings with tyson or such characters.

Whereas without the chance of getting really hurt you can train in MA's.


KG