A Healing Touch

Panther · Post by **Panther** » Thu Jan 04, 2001 9:43 pm

I didn't know where to put this... I looked at the forums and thought it should go on one, then a different one, and well... I'm gonna post it here, 'cause of conversations that I've had with Glasheen-sempai and Doctor X on this in the past.

A little background:

A number of years ago I was injured. In short order, my shape changed. (It's not "out of shape"... "round" is a shape.

) I had previously had some mild hypertension problems because of stress. That had been controlled mainly through medication. (All the tests came back fine and I was eating healthy and exercising.) When the weight packed on and the body changed from the drastic and sudden exercise reduction after being injured, the BP again became a problem. Over time, with diet and some other techniques, I got the BP under control and even weened off of medication. Things were checked routinely and everything was going fine.

Fast forward to right before Christmas:

I've admittedly been remiss in keeping to the diet and techniques. I had stopped doing checking the BP around 6 months ago because it was hovering around normal. Holiday season is stressful enough without the added stress of being involved in other tension-causing activities (I won't mention other threads

<- just joking)... and also some brand new work pressures. I ignored it all and just kept plugging ahead, working out again twice a week at Khoury's Dojo and getting treatments from Margaret Chojin for my injuries (yeah, I'm a basketcase

) had me feeling like things were starting to get better.

I have a needed, but not too common blood-type (negative). For years, I gave blood specifically for children... had a whole collection of little gold pins from Red Cross. So, right before Christmas, I had a bout of wanting to give. Went to give blood and was greeted as the long-lost old friend, but...

Oops, can't give blood. BP is way too high.

WAY too high.

Damn...

I called Margaret Chojin. Poor woman probably had a panic attack when she listened to her answering machine, 'cause I was adamant for her to call me back. She did and fit me in for an appointment immediately. And a second... and a third...

Had my routine appointment with her today and as she's done since those before Christmas appointments, she checked my BP...

I don't care how she does it! I don't care how it works! I don't care about "chi", "ki", or what-have-you... Since Margaret's treatments my BP is a steady 130/80...

I just had this confirmed with a nurse who works here. She got 125/80...

Works for me!

I can't recommend Margaret's services enough. Where doctors have wanted to solve everything with pills, here I am doing fine with a little help from my friends.

THANK YOU, MARGARET!

And the workouts with Gary-sensei, Bobby-sensei, Margaret-sensei and all the rest of the folks at Khoury's are FAN-tastic! They didn't know what they were in for when I "adopted" them all!

[This message has been edited by Panther (edited January 04, 2001).]

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Thu Jan 04, 2001 10:33 pm

Panther

First of all, I'm pleased to hear you are managing your BP. This is one of several important CAD (Coronary Artery Disease) risk factors that can be managed by you. Others include weight (sorry, fella...), smoking status (I presume you aren't, and I'll tell Gary to kick your *** if you are), cholesterol, diet, and level of stress.

Secondly, you are in good hands with Gary and Margaret. And which Bobby are you talking about?

Third, there are a number of different ways to alter (but not necessarily manage) BP without medication. What Margaret may be doing is stimulating the parasympathetic (and/or inhibiting the sympathetic) nervous system influence on your blood pressure. That can happen all kinds of ways, from influencing peripheral vascular control to changing the contractility of the heart. One easy way to show this can be done (short term) is to do a little carotid massage. I'm not familiar with her techniques, but I can imagine Margaret is quite capable of at least turning a tense person into a limp rag doll.

Fourth, there are all kinds of things that can affect BP. Your level of stress may have changed. You could have eaten a bunch of salty things (and are part of the minority of individuals who are salt sensitive). You may have consumed too much caffeine. Who knows? This is why it's imperative for you to continue monitoring your BP and note what affects it (good and bad).

And finally, it's very important that the person who takes your blood pressure do it correctly. There is actually a strict regimen for doing it, and VERY FEW people do it correctly. You're supposed to let the person stay seated for a few minutes before measuring. You're supposed to measure it at the level of the heart. Ideally you measure it in both arms. Just keep that in mind.

Oh and you taking life seriously? Really?? Never would have guessed it.

- Bill

Panther · Post by **Panther** » Fri Jan 05, 2001 4:28 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bill Glasheen:

First of all, I'm pleased to hear you are managing your BP. This is one of several important CAD (Coronary Artery Disease) risk factors that can be managed by you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was told by the first doctor who did tests and put me on BP meds years ago that it wasn't anything but "bad genes".

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

Others include weight (sorry, fella...),

My personal "big one" right now. Margaret has just started working with me on that as well, but even she noticed that I've dropped a little weight over the Christmas break. I was rather pleased that she said something, as no one else even noticed.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

smoking status (I presume you aren't, and I'll tell Gary to kick your *** if you are),

No way! Grew up in NC, "Tobacco country"... My momma never smoked, but got inoperable lung cancer from the 2nd hand crap... Daddy smoked for all his adult life, but he didn't really inhale. Interestingly enough, when they took pictures of his lungs a month before he died, his lungs were clear as a bell... After he passed away, two of my sisters picked up the habit... go figure... I still haven't gotten them to quit and Momma won't let them smoke in the house.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

cholesterol,

Last summer it was ~150 with a ~3:1 ratio... I believe that was because it was right after the big Summernational Car show and I hadn't eaten too well. Usually, it's ~90-95 and runs ~2:1 ratio.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

diet,

I don't like the taste of salt... guess I'm wierd that way. It's rare that I'll have anything like chips or crackers. With the dairy allergy, I don't have milk, cheese, ice-cream, etc... Haven't had pizza or ice-cream in 11 years, though I'll have a little chocolate once in a while (can't have too much, it's milk chocolate and I'll just pay for it later ). Favorite foods are sushi/sashimi and nice lean steak. (no vegan here, this cat's a carnivore.) Love vegitables like broccoli, cauliflower, spinach, zucchini, but I probably do eat too much rice at times. And I'm one of those wierd guys that doesn't care for the taste of beer generally, though I do like sake' with my sushi.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

and level of stress.

Me? Type A? OK, guilty as can be...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

Secondly, you are in good hands with Gary and Margaret. And which Bobby are you talking about?

Spoon-sensei. Between the three of them as my "adopted" personal trainers (shhhh, don't tell 'em...), I feel like I can actually make the comeback I've dreamed about for years and I'm going to have fun doing it. Yep, I'm in good hands with some of Uechi-ryu's best, brightest, and most caring.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

Third, there are a number of different ways to alter (but not necessarily manage) BP without medication. What Margaret may be doing is stimulating the parasympathetic (and/or inhibiting the sympathetic) nervous system influence on your blood pressure. That can happen all kinds of ways, from influencing peripheral vascular control to changing the contractility of the heart. One easy way to show this can be done (short term) is to do a little carotid massage. I'm not familiar with her techniques, but I can imagine Margaret is quite capable of at least turning a tense person into a limp rag doll.

I thought that was all it was too at first... But it's held. I went in for the first appointment and the numbers dropped, but not all the way. The same thing happened every time. The numbers dropped a little more each time and the initial reading at the next appointment (and in between appointments) showed that the BP had stayed down. I went over this AM and had it read by a nurse again... it's at ~130/80. Margaret's treatments, suggestions and guidelines are what I've followed. Even the small waist-loss over the break was because of a minor change that she and I discussed. (Being careful with too much carbs over the holidaze and making sure I have enough vitamins & minerals.) She barely goes near the carotid during these sessions, but it's true that she can relax someone. I must point out that the pain that I have in certain "meridians" is anything but relaxing! Mistress of Pain, Margaret seems to know all the places to push and make me jump...

Then she tells me how I've been sleeping, if I have a cold coming on, how much stress I've had, if I've overworked my back or knees. Maybe there's explanations for it, i don't know. But she touches my arm and says, "Your foot's bothering you" (Correct), then pokes around my leg and says, "you must have lifted something heavy, is your back hurting you" (Correct again), then pokes around my stomach and says, "you haven't been getting enough sleep lately" (Ding-ding-ding! Correct again), and the list goes on. It may not be magic, but it's comforting confirmation to me to have someone be able to know where I'm hurt or what's bothering me or that I pulled a muscle beyond the standard playing 20 questions of "how do you feel", "what's bothering you", "where does it hurt".

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

Fourth, there are all kinds of things that can affect BP. Your level of stress may have changed.

Naaaaaa...

I just need to go spend time with a Buddhist Monk again.

Panther · Post by **Panther** » Fri Jan 05, 2001 4:31 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

You could have eaten a bunch of salty things (and are part of the minority of individuals who are salt sensitive).

I am salt-sensitive, but like I said, I don't even like the taste and avoid it like the plague...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

You may have consumed too much caffeine.

One medium cup a day... max. (~12 oz.) Any additional is "decaf", but I realize that "decaf" isn't really decaf, so I only do the decaf thing for a second cup on rare occasions.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

Who knows? This is why it's imperative for you to continue monitoring your BP and note what affects it (good and bad).

I won't stop like I did before, I'll keep monitoring. If nothing else, it'll give me the bio-feedback to know when I'm getting too worked up over something.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

And finally, it's very important that the person who takes your blood pressure do it correctly. There is actually a strict regimen for doing it, and VERY FEW people do it correctly. You're supposed to let the person stay seated for a few minutes before measuring. You're supposed to measure it at the level of the heart. Ideally you measure it in both arms. Just keep that in mind.

They're doing it correctly. I was taught how to monitor my own correctly as well. Margaret usually doesn't do both arms, but my nurse friend usually does.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

Oh and you taking life seriously? Really?? Never would have guessed it.

HA! Here's a BP story you'll enjoy (as a medical researcher...)

My PCP was forced to retire at a young age this past summer because she has some personal health problems. I'd been with her since before the injury. In fact, she was upset when I was put in the hospital because they didn't call her on vacation to let her know. (Vacation... it was her honeymoon

and she thought they should have called her. An MD who's a true asset to her profession. I hope she gets healthy and returns soon. Anyway...) She was working with me to ween me off of some BP meds that a previous doctor had prescribed (too high a dose, caused my BP to actually drop too low, and then there were the other side-effects, yada, yada. It was one of the reasons I sought a second opinion and ultimately changed PCPs) It all seemed to be working very well, until...

I went in for a routine check-up and this brand new nurse came in for the pre-exam, took the BP, noted that it was up a little. Doctor came in a few minutes later, BP was fine. This went on consistently for about 4-5 visits. BP up during pre-exam when the nurse took it, normal when the doctor took it. Finally, the doctor decides that the nurse must be taking the BP incorrectly. Doctor reads BP as fine, then calls in the nurse to watch her take the reading. It's up higher. Doctor tells the nurse to leave and then bursts out laughing her @$$ off. I ask what's so funny. Well, you see, this nurse could have easily modelled in a, ahem, "gentleman's magazine" and when she took my BP reading no matter which arm she used, her technique was to support my arm by holding it under her armpit. Then she'd turn to look at the gauge (which is mounted on the wall) and inadvertently, ahem, ummmmm, well... she'd basically lay her ample endowment on my arm!

No matter how calm, disinterested and ignoring the situation I showed on the outside, it seems the results were obvious on the inside!

When the doctor watched the nurse actually take the reading, she realized immediately what was going on. Unfortunately for me, that nurse wasn't allowed to take my BP anymore.

(But I bet it's up now just thinking about that nurse.

)

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Fri Jan 05, 2001 6:41 pm

There is such a thing as "white coat syndrome," where a patient's BP reads high in the doctor's office because of the anxiety associated with the visit. Hmmm...we need a name for this syndrome, Panther. We could publish it as a case history in NEJM. Suggestions anyone?

OK now...a few deep breaths....thoughts of turkey sandwiches....cleaning the soap scum out of the shower....

On a more serious note now, I am very jealous of your access to someone like Margaret. Over the years I've had access to some excellent practitioners of the art of massage. I can think of 4 in particular that were very good at helping me with certain problems. In my younger years, I used to barter services for such treatments. Usually the person in mind was another young student with some training and I was a poor graduate student with a back spasm from doing something stupid. More recently I had a karate student help me with a nagging shoulder problem.

Traditional western medicine is great at helping you with certain kinds of problems. But there are those aches and pains and inevitabilities of life that are difficult to treat because life and health just has to take its course. And there are certain health conditions that can be aided by manipulation of nerve points or the kneading of the body in places to stimulate circulation and/or remove accumulated fluids and toxins. One of the biggest problems with traditional western medicine is that it is fond of gadgets and drugs and devices. In the interest of being proper and modern, the physician has created a barrier between him/herself and the patient. But sometimes you just need to have a spasm kneaded, a tendon peristaltically manipulated, or a swollen joint squeezed of its fluid. Sometimes its just symptom relief. Sometimes its more than that.

The most disappointing thing about moving to Richmond was finding out that there were no masseuses available to do what I wanted. Look up in the phone book, and all you find is people who massage only on a regular schedule to lethargic, rich people that want to be pampered. That's not it. Furthermore, there are laws in certain regions around here that ban opposite sex massages. While I'm not interested in the services provided by a shady joint near a motel, somehow the needs aren't quite going to be met by a fellow named Sven. There's definitely a psychological component to the whole thing. Call me sexist, call me crazy, but I know what I want when I need it.

Sigh...

- Bill

Panther · Post by **Panther** » Fri Jan 05, 2001 7:38 pm

Testa-sempai,

I don't really have a PCP right now... Well, I have one that was "assigned", but I haven't been to see him. My PCP, Dr. Lee, was a Korean woman working out of Leominster who was really great, caring and open-minded. Unfortunately, as I said, she had to "retire" suddenly this summer and the only reason given was a "personal health problem". No elaboration was given and I don't pry into other people's business. But I hope she lets me know if she decides to return to practice, 'cause I'm signing back up regardless of insurance carrier.

Sorry I couldn't help.

Panther · Post by **Panther** » Fri Jan 05, 2001 7:46 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bill Glasheen:

Hmmm...we need a name for this syndrome, Panther. We could publish it as a case history in NEJM. Suggestions anyone?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Panther's palpitations" (?)

And I even volunteer for further, ahem, "study"... We could do tests at that little club I've heard about, wasn't it near the BUKA?!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

On a more serious note now, I am very jealous of your access to someone like Margaret.

Eat your heart out!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

Traditional western medicine is great at helping you with certain kinds of problems. But there are those aches and pains and inevitabilities of life that are difficult to treat because life and health just has to take its course. And there are certain health conditions that can be aided by manipulation of nerve points or the kneading of the body in places to stimulate circulation and/or remove accumulated fluids and toxins. One of the biggest problems with traditional western medicine is that it is fond of gadgets and drugs and devices. In the interest of being proper and modern, the physician has created a barrier between him/herself and the patient. But sometimes you just need to have a spasm kneaded, a tendon peristaltically manipulated, or a swollen joint squeezed of its fluid. Sometimes its just symptom relief. Sometimes its more than that.

Glasheen-sempai, that's why I respect your opinions so much! If I can find another PCP (like Dr. Lee) who understands and feels this way, I probably wouldn't mind "going to the doctor" so much!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>While I'm not interested in the services provided by a shady joint near a motel, somehow the needs aren't quite going to be met by a fellow named Sven. There's definitely a psychological component to the whole thing. Call me sexist, call me crazy, but I know what I want when I need it.

Sigh...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Couldn't agree more, Otomodachi, could not agree more... (Had more than one "guy" who thought I was nuts for chosing a woman MD, but while they were b-itching about their care, I was doing better and better... harumph!

)

MetaBaron · Post by **MetaBaron** » Fri Jan 05, 2001 7:46 pm

I must have done something right in my last life, as my wife is a Shiatsu and acupressure expert trained trained in her birthplace of Kyushu.
*Gloat Gloat Gloat!*
Can you say, "Daily Treatments?"
:P
-Meta
Life is Goooooooooooooooooooooooooood.

------------------

If you overlook the Way right before your
eyes, how will you know the path beneath
your feet? Advancing has nothing to do with
near and far, yet delusion creates obstacles
high and wide. Students of the mystery, I
humbly urge you, don't waste a moment, night
or day!

- Shih-t'ou (700-790)

LenTesta · Post by **LenTesta** » Sat Jan 06, 2001 5:47 am

Panther:

I just joined the Tufts Health Care

Ummmmm....Where is this PCP located.

------------------
Len Testa

[This message has been edited by LenTesta (edited January 05, 2001).]