Do you get upset when you see the stereotypes?

Panther · Post by **Panther** » Wed Jun 21, 2000 3:38 pm

Hello,

Starting to think that I've scared everyone away from the women's forum! My growl is much worse than my bite... honest!

Anyway, I posted this on Canna-sempai's forum, but really want to get some opinions from the women martial artists.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>posted in another forum:
Got a call last night telling me to watch Dateline... In our house (with a few rare exceptions), the visual toilet collects dust unless we decide to watch a movie. (All MA movies of course

)

Anyway, it was a "special" Dateline about the NYC attacks. They interviewed Ms. Bryant, a kickboxing instructor, and showed parts of her teaching a class...

It confirmed my suspicions after reading the original story. She teaches a form of cardio-kickboxing (quite obvious from watching the class), but she doesn't see it that way... She felt like she was a "certified" kickboxing instructor (the reporter's phrase, whatever that's supposed to mean), but it went on to say that it was aerobics/kickboxing workout instruction that she was certified in.

Watching the class, I wouldn't be worried if she took her best shot at kicking me and I'm not even a young whippersnapper anymore

.

Her confidence is now crushed. She says it's because the police that were supposed to protect her didn't...

The fact is that 1) she admitted that she felt completely confident in her ability to handle herself

, 2) had no concern for the group that she saw being rowdy except that she didn't want to get anyone upset in the crowd by maybe slipping on her rollerblades and bumping into someone, 3) had plenty of opportunity to go around and avoid the situation, but skated right into the middle of it instead

, 4) once the attack started she claims to have kicked and screamed for all she was worth (and the reporter supported her assertion), however looking at the home video provided, she appeared to be more in the upset/crying/ball-up mode. She was "rescued" by a nice guy that had the 'nads to step in and scoop her away from the gang (that then decided to go after easier targets).

I've nothing against this poor woman, but am trying to point out the problems with people who think they can take care of themselves because they know TaeBo or some-such. She had the classic problems of over-confidence and living in "condition white"... Both can be fatal.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here's my question to the women martial artists... Does it make you upset when you see women being given a false sense of safety and security because they've learned some cardio-kickboxing? For a minute, forget the horrible actions of those testosterone overloaded punks in NYC... Does it make you upset when you see women doing things that (as a martial artist) you know aren't the best decisions? And does it make you upset that they feed into the "weaker" woman stereotype?

Just some musings... Ms. Bryant has obviously never heard of the 7 rules.

[This message has been edited by Panther (edited June 21, 2000).]

Mary S · Post by **Mary S** » Wed Jun 21, 2000 4:16 pm

Here kitty kitty kitty....

You don't scare me....

Panther, to answer your questions in a serious light, yes, I get very upset....I have advocated to many female friends the benefits of a good cardio workout to stay healthy and a good self-defence course to stay safe...I stress the second much more than the first...

And as for stereotypes....why are you just asking the women-folk....I'm sure the men have input too and (not to push any stereotypical buttons here) but shouldn't you be asking both the sexes...?

Honestly I am disturbed when I see either of the sexes making fool-hardy and unwise decisions which end up placing them in dangerous situations.

[This message has been edited by Mary S (edited June 21, 2000).]

Panther · Post by **Panther** » Wed Jun 21, 2000 6:51 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mary S:
Here kitty kitty kitty....

You don't scare me....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mew.. prrrrrrrrrrr...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

why are you just asking the women-folk....I'm sure the men have input too and (not to push any stereotypical buttons here) but shouldn't you be asking both the sexes...?

Ummmmm... my bad?

Actually, it was phrased that way because this is the "women's" forum and because I'd already posted basically the same message in Canna-sempai's Realities forum... which is where I expected the gents to see it first. I posted it here, 'cause I wanted to reach some of the women who might not read other forums as much.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

Honestly I am disturbed when I see either of the sexes making fool-hardy and unwise decisions which end up placing them in dangerous situations.

Agree... But I gotta tell ya, I've been indoctrinated by my sisters and wife to really hate it when a woman does something that makes women look weak, frail and at the mercy of "ba-huh-huh" men.

Tony-San · Post by **Tony-San** » Wed Jun 21, 2000 7:00 pm

Well from my point of view.... I could care less. I don't see the latest Martial Arts fads creating a false sense of confidence in the public. What I see is the Pied Piper at work.

Fine by me.

Tony

Mary S · Post by **Mary S** » Wed Jun 21, 2000 7:30 pm

It should be quite obvious to the person with any smarts that cardio-kicking and those funky little aerobic workouts are not great offerings in protection devices...and it is unfortunate that in a lot of cases they are seen as such. Thus, (in Panther's words) they give a false sense of safety and security.

But can someone explain to me what a "true" sense of safety and security would be? I believe only a fool would feel safe and secure when embroiled in a desperate situation where they had to defend/protect themselves or defend/protect others.

Maybe I'm getting lost in the semantics here...time for a cat-nap....

[This message has been edited by Mary S (edited June 21, 2000).]

Panther · Post by **Panther** » Wed Jun 21, 2000 8:01 pm

Mary,

A "true" sense of security (in the puuuurrrrrfect sense {I'm probably going to rot in some punny hades for that}

), is to have enough sense to realize that there is danger about to be avoided. It's generally referred to as being (or living) in "Condition Yellow". It doesn't mean being paranoid, it just means being aware of things going on. Most people walk around in "Condition White", meaning that they are basically oblivious to things happening unless it breaks their mental "cat"-a-tonic trance.

Mary S · Post by **Mary S** » Wed Jun 21, 2000 8:07 pm

Ring, ring....

"Hello, Hades? .... incoming..."

(I'm just not sure if we should use the trebuchet or the CAT-apult)

- do cats really have nine lives?

So maybe it wasn't that she had a false sense of security about her capabilities, maybe she had a false sense of security about the situation....or perhaps it was a little bit of both...

[This message has been edited by Mary S (edited June 21, 2000).]

lori macleod-doyle · Post by **lori macleod-doyle** » Wed Jun 21, 2000 8:17 pm

This topic was covered a while back,I can't remember which forum it was in but we discussed the false sense of security that many of the aerobic type martial arts were creating.Things such as Tai Bo,cardio-karate and the various forms of kick boxing that are being taught in the health clubs as well as many do-jos.
I think that many of the people who are teaching in the health club and gyms have been brainwashed by the industry to think that they are really teaching a martial art.

It is unfortunate that they are then ,in turn,passing this belief along to their students. I have watched several of these classes and have talked to many people who attend them and yes,it disturbes me that many,not all, believe they are prepared to defend themselves.
On the other hand, I have found that those who are attending this type of class in a do-jo setting,taught by qualified Martial Artists,are well informed to the fact that these classes are mearly a cardio workout and that this is not Martial Arts training. Maybe it's just a different type of workout that these people are looking for or maybe it's a chance to get a taste of what Martial Arts may involve.Whatever the case, they know up front that it is just a workout!
I have been studying Uechi for five and a half years now and I don't know what I would do in a confrontation.How could someone possibly think that after a few cardio-karate classes they could defend themselves? It's common sense,but then again,that's something that seems to be lacking these days.

Lori M-D

[This message has been edited by lori macleod-doyle (edited June 21, 2000).]

Panther · Post by **Panther** » Wed Jun 21, 2000 9:34 pm

Hmmmmm...

Time for me to (cat)nip this in the bud and cat-pitulate in this endeavour! Otherwise. I'll end up digging myself deeper into the litter box of bad puns!

Can't believe I actually wrote that! GACK! Oops, 'scuse me... hairball!

BTW, FYI (for anyone interested in cat history) for years my nickname was "Tiger"... came from my body style, fighting style, technique style and all the katas that I really enjoyed doing and did well were the so-called "tiger" katas. Then a number of years ago there was an altercation (in the real world (tm) ) and I became a lot more of a... well... realist/cynic. Some folks that knew me said that I had changed into a "darker" person (spiritually) and started referring to me as the "black tiger"... One day someone popped out with the comment that that would make me a panther... it stuck. I'm not such a dark, brooding person anymore, but I'm still a realist and I keep the moniker to remind me of the "dark" times. Funny thing is that I haven't seen any of the people that knew me as either name for quite a number of years. In fact, with a very few exceptions, all the folks I know now don't even know about my martial arts capabilities/past.

ANYWAY,

Lori-san,

I don't even know you personally, just from this forum and I feel confident in saying that 1) you don't seem to be the type who's living in "condition white" and therefore you wouldn't get yourself in a bad situation to begin with... 2) with your training and attitude, if you did get into an unavoidable confrontation, you'd survive... which is what it's really all about.

It really does seem like common sense has gone the way of presidential integrity these days...

[This message has been edited by Panther (edited June 21, 2000).]

lori macleod-doyle · Post by **lori macleod-doyle** » Wed Jun 21, 2000 9:55 pm

Panther,
I guess you are probably right about my not being in "condition white". I tend to be rather cautious in many situations.There have been several occurences in my life that have ,unfortunatly, caused me to be rather wary of people and certain situations.I have never been a confrontational person and prefer to avoid trouble rather than jump into it.I feel I am a pretty good judge of people and my "radar" has served me well on many occasions.
As for my training,I like to think that, put into a situation ,I would be able to get out of it one way or another but I am also realistic enough to know that until that situation arises I will never know how I will truly fare.I hope I will never have to find out.

Lori M-D

Panther · Post by **Panther** » Wed Jun 21, 2000 10:19 pm

Lori,

My shihan once told me that the highest mark of a martial artist was not having to use the art and avoiding any situation where it may be needed. He didn't mean that all situations could be avoided or that you would never have to use the arts. It was just a goal/ideal... based in part on the idea that many practitioners tended to get somewhat of an ego and a level of "mastery" was attained by going beyond that ego. Sounds like you have an excellent mindset.

I wrote in Canna-sempai's forum and it fits here:

There is always someone who is bigger, badder, meaner, tougher out there who has our dance-card... and may we never have to meet them!

lori macleod-doyle · Post by **lori macleod-doyle** » Wed Jun 21, 2000 10:31 pm

Thank-you Panther-San,
I don't know if it is a good mindset or a yellow streak!

Lori M-D

Kristy · Post by **Kristy** » Fri Jun 23, 2000 2:43 pm

YES this false sense of security that women get from aerobics/kickboxing and even some one night self-defense course really upsets me.

I have heard on the tae-bo infomercials these women proclaiming they feel powerful and like they can defend themselves. And it totally upsets me. Just want to also add, not once has Billy Blanks claimed it as a self-defense, but nonetheless his students do feel that way. Or at least I've not heard him on any promotions say it is good self-defense.

And I'm not familiar with the story of this woman....but you said she skated right thru the center of this riot or whatever. Well, 16 years of martial arts and training and I would not even had done that! I would have turned around and went back home. Yes, you have the right to be there but you have to use avoidance and good sense. Awareness and avoidance is the first rule of good self-defense.

Panther, Did not scare me away from the forums, there has just been a lot of tragedy around here this week.

Kristy

david · Post by **david** » Fri Jun 23, 2000 2:58 pm

>>And it totally upsets me. Just want to also add, not once has Billy Blanks claimed it as a self-defense, but nonetheless his students do feel that way. Or at least I've not heard him on any promotions say it is good self-defense. <<

Blanks is complicit in allowing those statements to be made in his (dis)"infomercials."

The more one engages in the "self-defense" side of training, the more one is likely to avoid that situation from the git go. Ms. Kickboxer was in condition white, probably rollerblading to the loud beat of her Sony Walkman.

As an aside, folks walking with walkmans or an cell phone glued to their ears... Might as well put a sign on, "Hi, I'm prey. Jump me."

Kristy, sorry to hear things are down.

david

Jake Steinmann · Post by **Jake Steinmann** » Fri Jun 23, 2000 3:54 pm

"Blanks is complicit in allowing those statements to be made in his (dis)"infomercials.""

What's the line?: "All that is necessery for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing?"

It personally drives me crazy whenever I see a martial arts instructor who claims to be teaching 'self-defense', and is in reality teaching nothing but tournament oriented garbage. The only people they harm are their students.

"As an aside, folks walking with walkmans or an cell phone glued to their ears... Might as well put a sign on, "Hi, I'm prey. Jump me.""

The other night, as I was driving home, I saw one of my housemates walking down the street, listening to her walkman, and reading a book.

When she got to the door, I pointed out to her the inherent dangers of taking away all of your audio and visual perception. It had simply never occured to her until I mentioned it.

Yet another person walking around in condition white far to often...

Jake

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Defeat is worse than death. You have to live with defeat - Seal Team Slogan