What are advanced techniques in your art of choice?

[jorvik]

Mike
I love the Fillipino arts, they don't seem to censor anything.eveything seems designed to maim or kill. Dumog ( standup wrestling) is excellent for dealing with bigger blokes, and when mixed in with punching it is really scary.
As to killer punches, in the first style of Tai-Chi that I did ( HAO) there was a punch in the form which was used like a "throwaway line"....but in reality it was a real killer....it was only much later that I realised this.....I don't think the little old ladies and ageing hippies doing Tai-Chi know this one

[Van Canna]

In his book Rory writes

Some people want to believe in magic and secrets and there are other people who will satisfy those beliefs for money and power.

What does a real attack look like and what do I need to have a chance?
Look at what you need not what you have. Then you gather what you need instead of trying to stretch resources where they were never meant to.

So how do we find out what we need?

He then writes that the optimal mind set is one that requires a focused rage for the first half second.

If you can truly flip the switch from surprised, overwhelmed and terrified to the assault mindset, I can’t teach you much.

He discusses the predatory mind set. You either have it or you don’t.
And ‘if you have it’ you must be able to access it in an instant.

And he also writes

Despite the wide variety of skills and complete incompatibility of the sets or strategy, martial artists are often convinced that they are training for all these things simultaneously in strictly regimented classes where things are done by rote and without question.

You can discuss the lessons in these comments.

I think it the essential aspect of self defense is to survive the first Most Critical 5 Seconds of Your Life, as Tim Larkin writes.

….Briefly the problem is not the knife but the man holding the knife. Training yourself to recognize that what makes any man dangerous is his active brain.

This is tantamount in freeing you
from the belief that any tool (knife, club, and/or firearm) in
and of itself is the threat.

We just finished a live training in Dallas where the new methods
we employed to teach these principles resulted in the class
almost 'teaching' themselves what to do in any violent situation.

My instructor and I were astonished at how LITTLE guidance new
clients need once they OWN that critical info.

Sadly most people blow off the need to really educate themselves;
instead they search for 'cool techniques'. But as we always say
'Principles save your life, techniques get you killed'.

So he is talking about certain concepts…what are they? And where do you find them in your TMA practice?

[Jason Rees]

Deleted by author.

[MikeK]

I would like to just keep this thread about the techniques and concepts themselves as well as about how they sometimes get "hidden". The freeze has already been addressed many times before. Thanks

[Van Canna]

And Jason rightly pointed out about believing the ‘concepts’ and whether they’d really help to un-freeze us under a sudden burst of violence.

Good question, how to answer it.

I would think that for most people, trained or not, the ‘denial’ stage is always there and it will always cause some freeze or hesitation, especially if the victim of this violent act has not embedded, has not been schooled in the violence dynamics and therefore he is grasping at straws to find solutions in the panic of the moment.

So in our study of martial arts we lead ourselves to believe that we have defensive skills. No question about it, we do…but can we make ‘self defense’ work for us in all or most situations?

Here, as to concepts, I like chapter 6 of Rory’s book: “Making physical defense work”

A must read for any of us thinking of ‘self defense’ _

Read of the five stages of violence and the concepts contained therein that help survive it.

[MikeK]

Actually I'd rather just focus on the original topic of advanced techniques rather than the freeze (which is a big topic on it's own), and I'm more interested in what each poster has to say rather than Rory's excellent book. Of course if Rory wants to chime in on the topic that's always welcome.

[jorvik]

I know of one secret/high technique from a system of Japanese knife throwing. It has only been revealed recently because I guess now it doesn't have the meaning it once held.
I read this in a book I have.basically most of the ryu was about correct timing and distancing with the knife/shuriken/shaken..and usually throwing it at a swordsman ( knife throwing is quite common in traditional Japanese sword arts e.g. Katori Shinto ryu has it )
This was the final secret of the ryu.....and basically you held your hands out in front of you with the knives in your hands and ran at your opponent and speared him in both eyes, you of course would obviously be cut down yourself ...the Master writing of this thougth it was profound and spiritual because you yourself would fly with your knives.
One set of DVD'sI'm thinking about getting is this one

http://www.aikidojournal.com/catalog/pr ... special=18

he says that the secret of fighting is distance and mainaining distance

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLUn49eYZH4

[Bill Glasheen]

We can probably take some of what Van is talking about and go forward with it.

Do you wish to parse off some of your posts, Van, and put them in another thread? Some interesting stuff there...

- Bill

[Van Canna]

We could do that Bill...but let's stay with what Mike wants for now.

The problem with 'Technique' that must be looked at _ is that all is relative to the threat being posed.

Advanced technique against what? Against whom?

Violent attacks will occur in so many different ways and by so many different types of enemies and by so many different types of weapons, and in so many different situations _ that the best engagement/defensive technique is constantly in a state of flux.

So first we must define what we mean by 'technique' then we must offer a number of scenarios and discuss the 'technique' application.

[fivedragons]

Advanced techniques.

I don't know what those are but I guess I have an opinion.

Yet another boring and long winded story from the mouth of five dragon's, like so much hot air, scorching the earth of all fun and mystery.

Hookay....

The same dude who I used as an example in my other posts, the long handshake and the hatchet disarm. I'm in his basement with another friend, and let's just say that we're all Irish to a great extent (and german too, since we're all so concerned about ethnic identity and cultural differences around here.) and like to get a little crazy, what with drinking and all. Personally, I don't get crazy in a violent manner, I just end up laughing alot and howling, annoying but harmless, that pretty much sums up my life.

Now the person who is about to be the recipient of advanced technique is a finish carpenter, life of manual labor built like a tank, some level of black belt in tang soo do or TKD, once invited a stranger from a bar to his backyard in the middle of the night to spar, it got so bad that the cops were called. If the cops hadn't come, they would probably still be beating the crap out of each other to this day.

I witnessed him punch someone wearing a motorcycle helmet in the spirit of fun. Rocked the helmet wearer, didn't seem to hurt our friend's hand.

So this guy is in the basement rec room with me and the hatchet wielding guy, the homeowner, who doesn't practice martial arts but was at one time a white apartment building superintendent in the Bronx.

The TKD dude, who's last name happens to be Dempsey by the way, gets a little boisterous and knocks the homeowner into a piece of furniture, almost causing some glass breakage. Homeowner rights the furniture and everything is cool... for about 30 seconds.

The music plays, everyone's talking and laughing...homeowner, (who's grandfather was a German Sniper in WW1 ) grabbed Mr. Dempsey by the throat and gently, even lovingly propelled his body onto the soft and forgiving cushions of the sofa by his side, leaned over his prostrate body and in a calm and even friendly tone said "Don't make me kill you, I like you too much."

There was no fight, no injury, Mr. Dempsey spent the next half hour sitting there apologizing about acting like an idiot while the homeowner kept saying "Don't worry about it, it's over. No harm done."

So to sum up, there are no advanced techniques, there is only advanced technique. Advanced technique being the ability to act efficiently and purposefully according to the circumstances that present themselves.

This is directly a function of the awareness, intent and physical ability of the actor, as a result of genetics and life experiences including training.

To me, it all comes back to mindset. Even exercise is actually most usefull as a mental exercise, in my opinion.

Hope you had as much fun reading this as I had typing it.

Edit: A couple days later, homeowner debriefed to me and said something to the efffect of "I know he can kick my ass, but I'm not going to let him get away with that crap in my own home."

[Van Canna]

Right on the money by 5D….

The best technique, right?

One way to understand that is by what Rory writes about all the different ways of ugly violence complexities, and where ‘technique’ fits…empty handed…weapons …the different levels of force …and how the ‘technique’ from one type violence doesn’t apply to the needs of another.

Something, he says, like that if you think you are going to fight me on Thursday, I’ll kill you on Tuesday.

This is my Sicilian family secret as well.

Then watch the movie ‘The Godfather’ and you get some very good ideas of technique.

One example was the punks at camp eons ago` who kicked the door open of our ‘party room’ and stated “We’ll see you guys tomorrow morning at dawn by the beach”

Well the best technique Rabesa and I used was to ‘take them out now’ rather than wait until the next morning.

The 'little surprises' 5D talks about.

So we can see how complex the talk of advanced ‘techniques’ is. Thus the reason to define ‘Advanced technique’ _

[MikeK]

We could do that Bill...but let's stay with what Mike wants for now.

The problem with 'Technique' that must be looked at _ is that all is relative to the threat being posed.

Advanced technique against what? Against whom?

Van, that is very true and a question we haven't really addressed! I recently posted a picture of a simple variation of a kote gaeshi that we do at the farm that essentially is meant to stop a trained person from easily countering that move. It's incredibly simple but I don't think I've seen it used before, though I know it's known by others out there somewhere. So one meaning (I think we'll find several more) of advanced technique could be one that we use against advanced adversaries.

Another question to toss into the pile, what happens if techniques are developed without a threat?

BTW Van, thanks.

[fivedragons]

Which brings up the next question, what is an advanced adversery?



In my book, an advanced adversery is someone who knows how to hurt me, is willing to, and knows my weaknesses.

Nothing to do with any style, or technique.

Just another human being with a very focussed intent.

Blah, anyone of us could be bad people if we were so inclined. Very easy to hurt someone, not so easy to help and inspire.

I'm pretty sure the way to stop an advanced adversery is to damage them. Kind of takes the guessing out of things.

[fivedragons]

One more post and then I'm done, because I don't pretend to have the answers.

The way to stop an advanced adversery is to call in close air support.

[MikeK]

It's not really about the answers which are bound to be multiple depending on POV, but the exploration of the idea is what I'm interested in.

There is obviously some idea of "advanced techniques" in most styles, but the definition is mostly vague and rarely is the idea ever really explored. I'd like to hear what other people think about the subject; why do we hide, postpone or remove certain techniques and concepts from our arts?

Which brings up the next question, what is an advanced adversary?

For the sake of argument on this thread I'd call the advanced adversary someone who is well trained in a martial art but with no prior knowledge of us before hand.